Mr Muse, thanks for the down to earth brass tacks of heat transfer/removal. So refreshing to hear someone talking sense about a subject all people deal with daily without necessarily even realizing it.
Direct use was 17.4 billion gallons in 2023. You left out the much larger amount of water used to generate the electricity that powers data centers.
And the concern is with thirsty hyperscale data centers being built in areas that already face periodic drought or rapid population growth - like parts of the Southwest, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, and North Carolina.
>A single hamburger takes hundreds of gallons to produce
Very annoying that in an article dedicated to correcting one fallacy you repeat another. The study or whatever which came up with the absurd figure for water usage in beef production, from what I recall, arrived at it by measuring rainfall across the entire pasture range and then attributing the total to each individual cow. Same dishonest rhetoric as some of the worst datacenter fear mongering.
Here you go Grug, “The average household flushes their toilet about 20 to 22 times a day, using approximately 32 to 35 gallons of water daily.” 🍔 Lactating cows drink more water. 🥛Is this a better comparison for you? Cows don’t use much water at all if they are grass fed. They get it from what they eat. It depends on the time of year how much they drink vs how much they get from grazing grass.
Then why have places like Lake Tahoe USA told citizen to find their own Water and what about the huge energy required , the unvearable noise ,the intrusion .
I’m ambivalent about AI data centers, believing AIs potential to be far more limited than others, so build away, but don’t be surprised if demand isn’t what you project.
That said, Microsoft can afford to eat 6 to 10% additional cost, can every AI company say the same? They aren’t profitable and have huge overhead costs, so why wouldn’t they build the less expensive option? Also, when isn’t a company (of any type) looking to take advantage of cost savings?
Yes, AI data centers should be built to satisfy the market demand for them. However, if the owners attempt to socialize their cooling (using whatever system) and power costs to taxpayers through higher water or electricity rates, there will be massive backlash from voters.
The taxpayers are also using the data center. Social media posts, Google queries, logging into to a bank or commercial site to pay bills all use data centers. Even basic telephone systems use the data centers. TV programming is managed through data centers. The only legitimate objector would be from someone who has no phone or TV and pays everything with cash. Even then the merchants they use and rely upon for food, fuel and every other need are supported by data centers.
i clicked because you used "innumeracy" in the title.
literally and numerically, the students in 4th, 8th, and 12th grades are functionally illiterate and innumerate. I'll read tomorrow and have a few more thoughts . . .
There are always gonna be a few who argue the matter, no matter what. In essence, this is good as it forces the facts and data out, and the bullshit to land where it belongs.
However, thinking most are going, "We already HAVE data centers?? From the 1990's??? What?"
Believe you but foreign money especially CCP 🇨🇳 links 🔗 welcome and useful. Trump for example just discovered there’s Communists aka DSA afoot last week and they’re “making their move “ which he’s been waiting for… so now is the time, citizen Muse. PS it’s all quite true.
Mr Muse, thanks for the down to earth brass tacks of heat transfer/removal. So refreshing to hear someone talking sense about a subject all people deal with daily without necessarily even realizing it.
Direct use was 17.4 billion gallons in 2023. You left out the much larger amount of water used to generate the electricity that powers data centers.
And the concern is with thirsty hyperscale data centers being built in areas that already face periodic drought or rapid population growth - like parts of the Southwest, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, and North Carolina.
>A single hamburger takes hundreds of gallons to produce
Very annoying that in an article dedicated to correcting one fallacy you repeat another. The study or whatever which came up with the absurd figure for water usage in beef production, from what I recall, arrived at it by measuring rainfall across the entire pasture range and then attributing the total to each individual cow. Same dishonest rhetoric as some of the worst datacenter fear mongering.
Here you go Grug, “The average household flushes their toilet about 20 to 22 times a day, using approximately 32 to 35 gallons of water daily.” 🍔 Lactating cows drink more water. 🥛Is this a better comparison for you? Cows don’t use much water at all if they are grass fed. They get it from what they eat. It depends on the time of year how much they drink vs how much they get from grazing grass.
Thank you Alex Muse. The problem is Americans that want to see us fail.
Then why have places like Lake Tahoe USA told citizen to find their own Water and what about the huge energy required , the unvearable noise ,the intrusion .
I’m ambivalent about AI data centers, believing AIs potential to be far more limited than others, so build away, but don’t be surprised if demand isn’t what you project.
That said, Microsoft can afford to eat 6 to 10% additional cost, can every AI company say the same? They aren’t profitable and have huge overhead costs, so why wouldn’t they build the less expensive option? Also, when isn’t a company (of any type) looking to take advantage of cost savings?
Yes, AI data centers should be built to satisfy the market demand for them. However, if the owners attempt to socialize their cooling (using whatever system) and power costs to taxpayers through higher water or electricity rates, there will be massive backlash from voters.
The taxpayers are also using the data center. Social media posts, Google queries, logging into to a bank or commercial site to pay bills all use data centers. Even basic telephone systems use the data centers. TV programming is managed through data centers. The only legitimate objector would be from someone who has no phone or TV and pays everything with cash. Even then the merchants they use and rely upon for food, fuel and every other need are supported by data centers.
i clicked because you used "innumeracy" in the title.
literally and numerically, the students in 4th, 8th, and 12th grades are functionally illiterate and innumerate. I'll read tomorrow and have a few more thoughts . . .
There are always gonna be a few who argue the matter, no matter what. In essence, this is good as it forces the facts and data out, and the bullshit to land where it belongs.
However, thinking most are going, "We already HAVE data centers?? From the 1990's??? What?"
FABULOUS article.
*Tips hat
Much Love
Why not build the data centers in industrial parts instead of on prime farmland and in rural areas?
Better yet, build them next to (or underneath) windmills and solar panels.
Thank you Alexander, your information was an excellent education!
Believe you but foreign money especially CCP 🇨🇳 links 🔗 welcome and useful. Trump for example just discovered there’s Communists aka DSA afoot last week and they’re “making their move “ which he’s been waiting for… so now is the time, citizen Muse. PS it’s all quite true.
CHINA / CCP-ALIGNED CONCERNS
Neville Roy Singham
|
+--> Donor Advised Funds / Intermediaries
|
+--> The People's Forum
+--> BreakThrough News
+--> Tricontinental
+--> Associated activist/media efforts
EUROPEAN BILLIONAIRE FUNDING CONCERNS
Hansjörg Wyss
|
+--> Wyss Foundation
|
+--> Public Citizen
+--> Sixteen Thirty Fund
+--> Other advocacy nonprofits
STRUCTURAL CONCERNS
Foreign Donor
|
+--> Foundation
|
+--> Donor-Advised Fund
|
+--> Fiscal Sponsor
|
+--> Project / Activist Group
If the cooling method is simply a choice, why then won’t the Meta center here in drought stricken Rio Grande Valley switch to air and freon?
Build them in space. Infinity is tempting.
Musk is going to and it’s the power ratio from solar in space.
However that rules out a lot of ground jobs
Most enlightening. But, what about the amount of water that will be needed by nuclear plants built to power AI or other needs. Do you know?
If it’s less than the 118B gallons a day on lawns…
Here is the truth: https://rumble.com/v7b223q-man-who-builds-and-owns-data-centers.-14-years-of-running-a-data-center-not.html?e9s=src_v1_s%2Csrc_v1_s_o&sci=8885962e-a16a-41f9-a2bd-22605906df8e